Jamaican Migration
It's more than likely that most of the readers of Moving Back to Jamaica are educated people who migrated and are interested in returning (at least vicariously through others.) If so, they make up part of the 72% of educated Jamaicans who live overseas.
This article summarizes the number of educated Jamaicans who live overseas.
Read the article here
posted by fwade @ 3/07/2008
18 Comments:
This figure will definitely increase over time, as a con sequence of the political,social,economic,crime/ violence,globalization,and the host of other negative conditions,situations and circumstances impacting the island state.
Actually, I'm a white boy living in Canada who's just trying to learn something about Jamaican culture. :D
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I am an American, born and raised. I have visited the Caribbean Islands several times and Jamaica three times. How in the world can anyone from the islands come over here and dislike our country especially black Americans? Frankly, we black Americans cannot stand people from the Caribbean and will let you know it in a heartbeat. The way you speak your jargon (especially Jamaicans with made up words and phrases that you use) is very irritating to our ears. You build your little communities & stay to yourselves. You turn otherwise nice neighborhoods into eyesores by painting dwellings and buildings bright yellow and blue..this ain't the Caribbean! How arrogant and disrespectful! You live in extreme poverty on your islands, you look and smell filthy & you have the audacity to complain about the states? Ridiculous. I've been travelling back and forth to the Caribbean islands since the seventies and I can truly say that I was excited to be in a foreign place, hearing foreign accents but was not ready for some of the sights (the people) that I saw. Shocked at what I did see, I still embraced. You black people from the isles, all of them, started this I don't like black Americans thing, way back then. It's all about jealousy. We look better, smell better, dress better, are classier, have more culture, are friendlier with more charm and we take your men, don't try to deny it. Learn from us. It was told to us by some high ranking officials in the Bahamas that jealousies against black American women run rampant on the islands and it was because we are the better ones.
I work with people from the islands (St Thomas, Puerto Rico, Jamaica and St. Kitts) and they all crowd into an office lunch time to bash black American women. The office building reeks of fish and other mess that you guys eat and the stench sickens us. And you guys constantly mention TING which tastes no different than soda that we've had here in the US for years. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having pride in something that your native country has imported into our country but of course your distorted pride is in the form of superiority. According to you guys, everything you do is better. Talk about delusional. Give me a break! We also notice that people from the Caribbean kiss white ass big time. You are still just an average nigga to the white man. I know that if this world were to reestablish slavery, you folks that are Caribbean would be volunteering to be slaves.
Black Americans, Americans period don't need you. Open your eyes. Go back to your boring little mountains, smoke your joint, do your nasty booty dances, grow your nasty looking, bug infested dreads, talk your stupid language (educated?) throw away your deoderant, don't comb or relax your hair practice your voodoo and keep getting those various veneral diseases that you're known for. Go back and relax in your impoverished island nations, nations that in 2008 are still relying on tourist dollars as your livelihood.
Can't you guys come up with something else that will generate revenue or can't you see past the coconut tree? Get a grip or don't, I don't give a damn. This country is better off without your contentious and aggressive attitudes. This goes for the Africans too..By the way, if you didn't get it, I am a beautiful black American woman.
slow your roll sista! The blame game will go on for ever. Black americans have serious misconceptions about West Indians and vice Versa.
It is extremely interesting, quite unfortunate and extremely paradoxical,that at this critical historical juncture,where the entire world is witnessing and observing the theatre and drama of American politics being played out,in terms of the Democratic nomination for presidency,between Mr. Barack Obama and Ms.Hilary Clinton.And the concomitant distasteful,ugly,and truculent manifestations of group and identity politics regarding race and gender(racializing and genderizing),and Mr.Obama's gallant and courageous attempts/efforts to repair the racial breach/divide or chasm,ostensibly created by his pastor Dr.Jeremiah Wright,in a speech that can only be classified as a tour de force,or a magnum opus,and one of the best speeches on race, since Dr. Martin Luther King's I HAVE A DREAM speech,that an AFRICAN AMERICAN woman,in a post submitted anonymously would be hurling invectives,venom,diatribe, bitterness and malevolence toward, or,at Caribbean islanders in the form of BLACK AMERICAN RACIAL CHAUVINISM,flag flapping, and Afro-jingoistic psychology,values and attitudes.Indeed,it is quite obvious that the poster's political,social,economic and cultural knowledge of the Caribbean and the global economic context in which the Caribbean functions and operates, historically and currently is extremely marginal and at best limited.Hence,such gross, wanton and negative generalizations of the Caribbean experience in the United States and for that matter the Caribbean itself.Inflammatory remarks and indictments with respect to the odor of food,linguistic expression,enclave development,personal deportment,and dress is not unique to Caribbean immigrants, but is somewhat typical of immigrant groups and communities in metropolitan societies.Here,the writer/poster seems to be exhibiting an inordinately excessive amount of xenophobia. Concerning,the issues of dressing better, taking Caribbean men,and being classier, the generaliztions are significantly overstated and blown way out of proportion that they are akin to statements made by juveniles.Interestingly,some, and again I say some,Caribbean men may seek out American women, because at times they are interested in residing in the United States on a permanent basis and such relationships or liasons may lead to marriages,hence,a permanent status,and again, at times, love is blind and the question of ethno-nationalism is totally immaterial and irrelevant.The question of pride runs through the veins of most Caribbean people especially Jamaicans, but not in a jingoistic,and chauvinistic manner as being stated by the poster.Quite frankly,Caribbean people do have a proud history of struggle against slavery,and colonialism and the current social ills and maladies of capitalism, that which defines the respective polities and societies.The question of race consciousness in Caribbean societies is extremely pervasive, but unlike the United States, in many Caribbean societies, race at times is not the over riding factor, or crucial determinant in such societies.The social pyramid or class in many instances trumps race, but they are at times not mutually exclusive.So,in some instances Caribbean people are not necessarily obsessed with race as the typical black American may be.Having said that,this does not necessarily mean that Caribbean people will lie prostrate and kow tow to the whiteman as you mistakenly allude to.Yes,tourism is the engine of economic development in most of the islands today.Indeed, this is quite unfortunate, and a strong sense of diversification is needed or required to break away from a monocultural economy.Anonymous,it is extremely critical that both groups of people, black Americans and Caribbean people transcend these misconceptions, perceptions and misperceptions of each other and reach out to understand each other.Indeed, there are differences,culturally and otherwise,nonetheless, one is of the perspective that we do have more in common than what divides and separate us as a people.One way to transcend these myopic divisions is through education and exposure to each other. Interestingly, this is taking place as we speak,the world is becoming smaller daily, and for us to be effective in this global village,it is imperative that we transcend these divisions,isms,and schisms as a people.Quite frankly,Mr. Barack Obama has thrown down the gauntlet in terms of his speech,it is up to us as a people both black Americans and Caribbean people to challenge ouselves anhd go beyond jingoistic infantilism.RESPECT!!
I am not angry, just speaking the truth as I have and still am experiencing. Yes, I wanted a "pen pal" to communicate with, another female my age, from any of the islands that I visited, but the women just snubbed their noses at us and the Jamaican women called us "bloodclots?' In the Bahamas a male tried to hit us with a chair while we quietly sipped drinks at the bar.In Grenada, I was told by a male who had befriended me that we could not keep in contact after the cruise was over because I was an American woman, in St Thomas a cab driver drove so slowly to get us back to our cruise ship after we pleaded with him to do over fifteen miles an hr to get us back because our ship was about to leave, in St John a worker blatantly told the ferry to pull off as we neared the gate, in Puerto Rico at a flamenco performance, an announcer asked all of the white looking people where they were from, totalling ignoring us, the only blacks in the audience, in Barbados a cab driver wanted to charge $100 dollars per person for a 2 hr tour around the island and then proceeded to curse us out when we refused to pay the horrendous price he offered...I could go on and on because I've been to at least five more islands and rec'vd the same type of treatment. I had an open mind. I am the friendly one who used to go out of my way to welcome people from the Caribbean to the offices that employed me but now I'm no longer naive and have caught on to my American brothers and sisters neglectful treatment of your people.
And I find it so funny how my comments are "angry" and how you use the word "war". When it comes to the truth about people from the Caribbean you thought about deleting my comments.Look all over the internet. Just put in American vs Caribbean. Check out the comments by the people from the Caribbean. They are nasty and negative. Check out the comments from the Americans...not so harsh. Ask any American if they agree with me. To your face they will not agree with me because Americans are polite. But trust me, I've had countless conversations with my people and we all feel the same. It will never change because you guys come over here and won't adapt to our better way of life. I say bring your culture, but adapt to mine too. What's wrong with mingling the two cultures together? We're all black, we don't stick together and I don't ever see it happening. You guys create a division by stating I was born in America BUT my parents are Caribbean born. So what! If you're born in America , that makes you an AMERICAN! You are not from the islands, period!
One of the women that I work with, from St. Kitts, refers to all the American black women in the office as stupid, dumb & ghetto but each and every one of them are working at a higher level than she is and are making at least five thousand dollars more than she is as she walks around the office in her wrinkled clothing. Her problem is that she thinks that she is superior and that she should be where they are or even promoted to a higher level. They all have masters degrees and she just doesn't get it. Her nasty attitude keeps her down.
If need be, I'll go on and on but I think that I've made my point .
To Estaban
You can describe my comments as infantilism. It's ok with me if you choose to dismiss the facts in that manner. I suggest you post your comment as a response to as many negative posts about black Americans, written by Caribbeans, as possible. Make sure that you refer to their comments as bigoted as you have referenced mine to be. Though your psychobable bores me I understand.
Goodness, you people kill me when it comes to the subject of racism. THERE AREN'T ENOUGH WHITE PEOPLE TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST YOU IN THE CARIBBEAN, SO OF COURSE THERE IS NOT THE LEVEL OF RACISM IN THE CARIBBEAN AS IN THE UNITED STATES.
You would think with all your psychobable, intelligence and common sense would come into play at some point. Please put the dictionary away and be real.
Francis, you are totally correct,the poster is not an American but a self-loathing Jamaican, who has a considerable amount of issues with Jamaica.A content analysis of the writing style conspicuously delineates that.How Interesting!!
The number of whites, or the size of the white population in a society with respect to the degree and intensity of racism is not necessarily correlated at all times.South Africa and Zimbabwe both had minority populations in terms of whites relative to the large indigenous black populations and the nature of racism in both societies was just as virulent or even more so than the United States.
Let me rephrase that...SELF HATE is our biggest enemy.
BTW. I do enjoy this blog and its purpose...I too want to go home...to the land of my father.
Upon reading this comment I was distressed. While I empathize and feel for you and your unfortunate mistreatment in your travels, anonymous commenter I felt you did not stop to familiarize yourself with the body of work produced in this blog before slinging mud. I can recall Francis not being any more tolerant of a well respected Jamaican journalist's lambasting of Black Americans than he is of this particular brand of offensive rhetoric.
All anyone ever sees when they look at us as a unit is our skin - from this fact, very few of us can hide. So why aren't we building up instead of breaking down, can you imagine what a tremendous resource we would have if we did not allow name calling to interfere with the strength we as people could have if we stop navel gazing for just one second?
Malcolm X and The Reverend Louis Farakhan are both of West Indian heritage. Do you think that the Italians serving you pizza in your neighborhood pizza parlors are all straight off the boat from Italy, hardly! They are not belittled for embracing their heritage, why should we be? What's wrong with wanting to hold on to your heritage in a strange land - most times it is all we have after coming to this country with only a couple of suitcases. I have been called "uppity" because I did not know what chitlins and greens were; I have overheard people condemning and berating me within earshot because they thought that I have been in the U.S. long enough to have assimilated and lost my "ridiculous accent;" by the same token one of my best friends is a Black American woman who like me finds kinship in like mindsets. To quote the movie "School Daze," "Wake Up" anonymous. My mother always told me as a child...when you point a finger, four point back at you.
Why aren't we recognizing that as a united group we stand more to gain with pooled resources the generational benefits of which should potentially outweigh the isolated nitpicking.
STOP THE MADNESS.
Lady, there is absolutely nothing "beautiful" about you. To write with so much conviction how much better you are than another group of Black people, only reflects your extreme level of stupidity, ignorace, self-hatred, and White brain-washing - known as the "Willie Lynch" syndrome. (If you can read, research Willie Lynch and understand why you believe and think the way you do. And to rebut part of your silly diatribe, specifically, "...You black people from the isles, ...started this I don't like black Americans thing, way back then.[you must be qute old to be able to remember 'way back then'..."It's all about jealousy. We look better, smell better, dress better, are classier, have more culture, are friendlier with more charm and we take your men, don't try to deny it. Learn from us...")
Girl...Please! Get a grip! Here is my experience in your (or so you think) "wonderful"country: I came to New York at 12, in the 1960s, went to an all Black school, was teased mercilessly by Black kids who looked like me; called a kinds of disparaging names, got into numerous fights because I would not let them pick on me. Yes, "they" started it, when all I wanted was to get an education. Unlike you, I did not get bitter and negate the other wonderful kids whom I befriended? Even at a young age, I recognized that there are nincompoops in every race, gender, culture, and strata. I graduated at the top of my class, along with the only White boy in the school (who was also teased because he was fat and beaten because he was White!) Years later, I went back to the "hood" to find that too many of the Black kids who picked on me, where either strung out or dead from drugs that infiltrated our community, some were prostituting, others had lots of children and were on welfare, some were incacerated, etc., Did I blame them by saying, "You all started this?" That would make me just as ignorant and illiterate you dearie. Instead, I thought of those wonderful kids who befriended, defended and protected me from the "lost" ones. (Those friends showed up at my recent wedding, though I have not seen some of them since Jr.High School- over 40 yrs!) Even then (at 12) I had an idea who was going to make it out of the "ghetto" and who would fall victim to it. We were all victims but some chose not to remain victims. I learned, even back then, not to play the blame game because what was going on in the Black neighborhoods, schools, etc., was bigger and more complex than any of us could fathom. Drugs, guns, crime, AIDS - we are all poor victims, victimizing each other. If you open your eyes, you will realized that those who "started it" look nothing like you or me! Wake up sister!
You would be hard-pressed to find anyone -Black, White, Asian, or Caribbean - jealous of you. We are mostly shaking our heads and crying a tear for you and your narrow-minded, myopic, simplistic thought process. For someone who carries such disdain for Caribbean folk, you sure keep coming back to mingle amongst us. Tell me, where is you man? Since you claim the power to "take our men", I wondered why you made not mention that you have one. By the way, I got one of yours. My African-american husband is from New Jersy and he has a diametrically opposite view from yours, about Caribbean people. He absoulely adores us, especially me! Sounds like you need some love. Open your mind, your heart and your spirit and you might find it. But you have got to begin first, with yourself.
Malaika
First of all, I have been proposed to twice before age thirty, have been happily married to my husband of ten years and have three beautiful children. This is not about a man. Why is that always the end result of conversations, with you guys.(look at some of my responses) To sum it all up, Caribbean men are abusive and not at all appealing to me. Needless to say, you love my "wonderful country" that's why you're here and are married to an American man and attached to everything American. You (all of you) didn't have to come; you could have gone to England but the best won you over. I don't mingle with island natives in the Carribean any more because I can't stand the coarse, vociferous and vicious ways that seem to be you guys strongest personality traits.
Truthfully, I go to see the stunning hues of the Caribbean sea that God has blessed that part of the world with and have been extremely content with not stepping a foot outside the boundaries of my resort. I've experienced
Carribbean "hospitality"
and have enough sense to refrain from mingling with such people. You should have figured that out by my previous comments. Those last few sentences could have been avoided. The truth remains. Black Americans (most) do not care for Black islanders because of YOUR ways. We can accept anyone from anywhere. But not if you CHOOSE to come here, perpetrate snobbery & continue to create division between you and US. I think the real reason why you do is because you don't fit in and don't know how to fit in. That is why England is so much better for you. This is not anger, boo!
This is truth telling at it's finest.
Anonymous has left a new comment on the post "Jamaican Migration":
Malaika
First of all, I have been proposed to twice before age thirty, have been happily married to my husband of ten years and have three beautiful children. This is not about a man. Why is that always the end result of conversations, with you guys.(look at some of my responses) To sum it all up, Caribbean men are abusive and not at all appealing to me. Needless to say, you love my "wonderful country" that's why you're here and are married to an American man and attached to everything American. You (all of you) didn't have to come; you could have gone to England but the best won you over. I don't mingle with island natives in the Carribean any more because I can't stand the coarse, vociferous and vicious ways that seem to be you guys strongest personality traits.
Truthfully, I go to see the stunning hues of the Caribbean sea that God has blessed that part of the world with and have been extremely content with not stepping a foot outside the boundaries of my resort. I've experienced
Carribbean "hospitality"
and have enough sense to refrain from mingling with such people. You should have figured that out by my previous comments. Those last few sentences could have been avoided. The truth remains. Black Americans (most) do not care for Black islanders because of YOUR ways. We can accept anyone from anywhere. But not if you CHOOSE to come here, perpetrate snobbery & continue to create division between you and US. I think the real reason why you do is because you don't fit in and don't know how to fit in. That is why England is so much better for you. This is not anger, boo!
This is truth telling at it's finest.
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First of all, and at the risk of perpetruating this nonsense, it is apparent that you have forgotten who initiated the verbal abuse of a group of people by stereotyping, generalizing and more sadly, engaging in mudslinging. YOU STARTED THE FIGHT SWEETIE, NOT ME! I ONLY RESPONDED TO IT!
I have not spoken in any negative way about American, Caribbean, African, etc. You did! (I was brought to his (yes "his") Country not by choice but by force - by my parents - I was quite young). But I have never knocked it. Seems that you are still rationalizing in a silly, juvenile manner to justify your position. If you are so happy in your personal life, why do you feel the need to denegrate others? And why are you remaining anonymous? You are the one "perpetuating the snobbery and creating division..." I only responded to what you have spewed! And unlike you, I choose not to be anonymous!
Speaking on a broader scale, were we/you not all brought to this Country by force? You are speaking as if you are exempt from hate & discrimination by the Oppressors. News Flash: They don't love you any more than they hate me and for darn sure they don't hate me any more than they hate you! I won't give any more credence your subjective opinions and narrow-minded views as I think I it would be a waste of both our time. I am aware enough to look at the bigger picture but sadly, I dont think you will ever get it. I don't make sweeping generalization the way you do! You need to go back and really read my response -because what you continue to perpetuate makes no sense to me. Bully for you and the "wonderful husband" you have had for "ten years"! I guess next you will try to make us believe that you are living the "American" T.V. fantasy of "A Wonderful Life" - as the perfect wife and mother, with the even more perfect hubby and very perfect children. I've been on this earth a long time girlie, and just when you think that you got it all together, with your air of superiority, a higher power lets you know you don't! For each time you experience pain, betrayal, hate, discrimination, recalcitrant kids, and a cheating spouse, stop and ask yourself how different you are from the rest of us. Not! But please remember what I, Malaika, say to you. Three things that will make you cry and tear your heart out sister, are your kids, your man and the realization that you are Black, female, and living in a racist Country!
Now then! Unless you are going to express to me how you are going to do your part to bring about world peace, stamp out hunger, illteracey, ignorace, cure Aids, and instill love, unity, understanding, patience and toleration between people of all creed, nationality, race, culture, ethnic background, please do not waste your time emailing me with your inane ramblings. I have better things to do. Like planning a trip to the Caribbean, Africa,etc. I love Black people, all over the globe and relate to them as individuals - I don't lump them into any negative category without having gotten a chance to interact on a one-on-one basis. I hope you, your husband and your children make a difference in the world because your God will not be asking you, or me, or anyone else, how many times you have "been proposed to before you were 30"; how much "better you smell than an African or Caribbean person"; how "beautiful" you and your children are, whether you were born in America, or how "wonderful your County is..." . Those attributes will not be a criteria for your salvation! By the way, how and when did this get to be your Country? And since you claim it is, why don't you make some positive changes for the rest of us poor, unfortunate folks who have lived with prejudice, racial discrimination and ignorance amongst us for over 400 yrs? Why don't you become Queen of America? And then do your thing! Whatever that is!
I don't think you've read all of my posts because if you did you would not be reiterating some points that I've previously made. Or maybe you don't read with comprehension. Before you even responded to my last post (before today) I chose to be anonymous because I have that right so YOU made the decision to respond instead of ignore. You apparently wanted this fight too. I'm not going to keep repeating myself to someone who is so angered by what I write that I can tell, by your writing, that I'm under your skin and you are forgetting what I've already written. Ha! And to address "my country"...It's my country because I was born here, I am a citizen and that GIVES me the right to claim it. It's obvious that you guys need to study citizenship, indigenous peoples, immigration, etc. because you just don't seem to get it and I don't have the patience to teach you when your heads are stuck in the sand. You may or may not be reading this but I can almost guarantee that you are because you sure responded quickly to my last comment. So yes, I'm sure you're anxious to finish reading what you're reading now. And I hope that when you go to Africa or the Caribbean that you might think about relocating there since you are now an adult and no one is "forcing" you stay here in the USA, the country that you think is so "wonderful".
Aah gee Anonymous. I was right. You just don't get it. You have much to learn and quite frankly, you are not worth the time or the effort. I must leave you now so I can spend my quality time with my grandchildren, and romancing my husband. Taa Taa!
I don't think this is a "self-loathing" Jamaican at all. Seriously, though, I have friends who work in the Hospitality sector in Jamaica, who tell me that their worst experience with guests have been black Americans. So her attitude is not strange to me...
AAMOF, I recently met a Jamaican who returned home a couple of months ago, complaining about everything here. She left at age 11, and came back some 30+ years after with her sons. Makes you wonder if we are so "backward, violent, expensive", etc, why come back with your kids? To raise them in this "backward, violent, expensive" society? Why is it that so much expats, once they come here, don't want to leave?
Go figure.
YardMan4Ever
IT Professional
Kingston, Jamaica
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